Category: Career Advice

Phoebe Morgan talks about her career journey from journalism into publishing as commissioning editor at HarperCollins.

Describe your career before moving into publishing.

After I graduated from Leeds University with an English degree, I trained as a journalist in London on the NCTJ fast-track course. This was a super intense, four-month course during which I learned everything there is to know about media law, public affairs and news reporting, as well as reaching 100 words per minute in shorthand (something I’m still very proud of because it was HARD!). Following the course, I was lucky to secure a role as a news reporter at a local newspaper in Surrey, where I then worked for just under a year. During this time I covered a lot of court cases, some fairly harrowing attended lots of village fetes, local elections and public events, and crucially learned the importance of sticking to a deadline. Being a journalist was an incredibly eye-opening experience; it’s not an easy job by any means, and in the end, I made the decision that it wasn’t quite right for me and set my sights on publishing.

How did working in another industry help you into publishing?

Working in journalism teaches you a lot about persistence and tenacity – as a reporter I had doors slammed in my face and some very awkward conversations but you have to keep going and get the story, otherwise you’re nothing to fill your paper with! I was responsible for my own edition of the newspaper so it was quite pressurised, and that taught me a lot about the importance of never giving up – meaning that when the time came to apply for new jobs I was incredibly dogged and just kept going. Training as a journalist gave me quite a few transferable skills – I knew how to write to deadline, I was a fully paid-up member of the grammar police, and I had a good eye for detail which is essential in both journalism and publishing (especially on the editorial side).

What was your first role in publishing and how did you get the job?

My first role in publishing was as a Publishing Assistant at Octopus Books, part of Hachette UK. I couldn’t afford to leave my job in journalism until I had another job lined up to go to, so once I decided I was unhappy at the newspaper I began applying for assistant roles in publishing houses – the vast majority of which were in London. I was living in London but working in Guildford, so it was tricky to get back for interviews etc and looking back it was a very stressful time. I didn’t get the first role I applied for but I did get quite far down the line with a few roles, so often felt as though I was very nearly there. However, some of the final rejections were so soul-crushing and I had moments where I never thought I’d be able to make it into industry. Eventually though, Octopus offered me the role, and I was absolutely over the moon.

What would you say are the pros and cons of coming into publishing from another industry?

I think the pros are that I came to publishing with a different perspective because it wasn’t my first job out of university; this gave me lots to talk about in interviews and a fresh way of looking at things which I think employers liked. Coming from another industry means you already have a sense of the working world, and your place within it too. Publishing can be quite a sociable industry – everyone knows everyone – and coming from another industry can give you confidence to enter into that world without feeling too panicked. The cons are I guess having to ensure you convince an employer to take a chance on you, explain why you left your previous role and sometimes, join the ladder at a slightly later age – however I have found all these things are manageable and they haven’t huge been problems.

What skills do you use in your current role that you gained earlier in your career and that have helped you progress?

Journalism definitely taught me the importance of sticking to deadlines and this helps me stay on track with all my books, ensuring they meet the critical path and that they go to print on time. I was also taught about proofreading and writing concisely in journalism, both of which have helped me in publishing – I really enjoy writing back copy for my books and making it as tight as possible (it’s much easier than writing a six-word headline!) and having had to check facts again and again in journalism to ensure you get the story straight (and don’t get sued!) means that I pay attention to detail in my authors’ books.

Why is publishing a great place to be?

I am grateful every day to work in the publishing industry, and so glad that I made the leap from journalism. At the time I was incredibly worried about failing – after all I had trained in journalism and thought that was it, but now I know that people leave that industry so quickly – but now I am 100% sure I made the right decision. Publishing is such a rewarding place to work – there’s nothing like the thrill of finding a book, seeing the manuscript or signing up a new author, and seeing the books you edited out into the shelves is wonderful. Some of the time, as an editor you really are getting paid to read which is amazing, and I also like how creative the industry is too. I think it’s a very friendly industry – almost everyone you meet is very nice and willing to help you and offer advice where necessary, something I really appreciate. Plus there are a LOT of prosecco moments.

Paul Baxter from Bonnier Publishing talks about his journey from the world of music into publishing as contracts and royalties manager.

Describe your career before moving into publishing.

Before moving into publishing, I’d been working full time in the music industry for around a decade, predominantly working with publishing (songwriter) rights. I’d worked in different areas across licensing, copyright and contracts, digital distribution, royalties and other project management. While studying for a music degree at Napier University in Edinburgh, I’d also held several music-related jobs, including running the relationship between a recording studio and the whole of my year, started a promotions company, interned with a promoter in Edinburgh and later interned with the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society in Glasgow, who licensed the Scottish Parliament as part of a cross-party group on the Scottish music industry.

When YouTube moved my move to London, I was part of the first team to license YouTube for music use, had the opportunity to work in South East Asia and look after digital licensing across numerous territories across Europe, administered large catalogues for a private investment fund and was lucky enough to work with many of my childhood idols.

But, as anyone working in copyright will tell you, doing all of the things it’s got to change and evolve, including being outsourced, centralised or altered as part of digital administration and moving to a more global-focus on rights management. I decided it was time for something new, and publishing caught my eye.

How did working in another industry help you into publishing?

There are many obvious differences between the two industries but also many similarities. For example, where a song contains copyright in the top line melody and lyrics, a book holds copyright in the text. Where an album cover holds illustrative copyright, so does a book cover. Both have digital download formats which are experiencing changes in their areas and both operate partly on trade and consumer deals. Working in music rights gave me a good grounding, but my knowledge and interest caught the eye of those working in publishing.

There are also many transferable skills like people management, Excel, understanding of finances and taxes, contractual terminology, trademark and extended reading abilities that cross over.

What was your first role in publishing and how did you get the job?

My first role in publishing was as contracts and royalties manager for Bonnier Publishing (covering two of their UK divisions, Kings Road Publishing and Bonnier Zaffre). I got the job because my experience covered lots of different areas in rights, rather than being overly-specialised in one far-reaching area. I was (and still am) extremely passionate about the work I do and an ‘across it all’ gain my I’m one of those that try to immerse myself every aspect of what they do. If I won the lottery, I wouldn’t leave my job, and I think this came across strongly during the interviews.

What would you say are the pros and cons of coming into publishing from another industry?

The pros are that it has taught me a lot of the base knowledge and given me the transferable skills I needed to build upon in book publishing. Additionally, having had ten years of experience and being able to bring that into a business which has established music links. This allows me to work closely with music managers and/or agents about how copyright works while their experience and understanding in the music industry. I am also able to understand different copyright ownership to see if any administration needs to be done with the authors’ estates.

The cons? There is a lot to take in! Understanding how music works to transition into book publishing background requires a lot of knowledge. However, my past allows me to find differences, but not necessarily similarities. I know about the music industry, and I can learn about publishing, yet I’m not always sure of the differences. As Bonnier Publishing is open to hiring people from outside the publishing world and more from those who work within and those like me, we’re able to share knowledge and expertise in order to collaborate and become stronger overall.

What skills do you use in your current role that you gained earlier in your career and that have helped you progress?

I manage author contracts, intellectual property in general, contract negotiation risks, financial accounting, Excel use, project management, and overall administration.

Why is publishing a great place to be?

I can’t say whether publishing is a great place to be other than it’s definitely as interesting as music, but what I can say is that Bonnier Publishing is a great place to be! They allow you to think outside the box and have a professional but fun atmosphere, supportive nature, lack of workplace snobbery and ways of making what I unique in my experience. I genuinely believe that being interested in your work, working in a engaging workplace that challenges you and feeling valued for something you know comfortable are all of balanced importance. I enjoy working in the environment, there’s much more to learn though and I look forward to continuing the development of my skills and experience alongside great people.

This is part of a series profiling professionals working in publishing who started their careers in different industries and diverse ways. Please contact Lara for more details on how to take part.

Lisa Edwards from Templar Publishing talks about her journey from the world of retail into publishing and how the knowledge that she gained helped her become the commercial publishing director that she is today.

How to get into publishing from retail – Describe your career before moving into publishing.
After I left sixth form I honestly thought university wasn’t for me, never mind publishing. I loved ballet and went to a really good school in North Wales that is still going strong. I taught for them for four years (with a range of supporting jobs including chambermaiding, waitressing and retail) and then one day I had an epiphany. I felt my brain start whirring into gear, telling me I needed to go and study something. I really don’t know what prompted it, other than my brain’s own needs. I loved my ballet teaching, but I think I needed to see what life was like outside North Wales. Four years after leaving school I studied Dance and English at Roehampton University, and quickly realised I was much better at English so I majored in it. Then I started an Arts Review magazine with a group of friends and the idea of publishing sprang into my mind. After university, I tried sending out copies of the Arts Review with my CV and didn’t get a single interview. I’m not sure what I did wrong but I fell back into retail — and ended up as assistant buyer for the Liberty Bath House in Regent Street.

How did working in retail help you get into publishing?
I’m so glad that I did that retail buying job for three years. It taught me everything about finding new creative talent (that’s what Liberty did), consumers, and the commerciality of the product. Because I didn’t get an instant ‘in’ to publishing I think I quickly realised I wasn’t the be-all and end-all because I had a first in English and had made a magazine. I think my experience there worked positively on my CV when I finally did get into publishing because I knew about buying-in products that people wanted to buy and how mark-ups and profit margins worked. Lots of elements of retail buying are transferable to publishing.

What was your first role in publishing and how did you get the job?
I got my first job in publishing by walking in off the street and asking for it! I’d moved to Brighton to do an MA in English at Sussex University (my fall-back career after publishing was academia) but I hated it. I’d loved my busy, social, retail life and I couldn’t bear the thought of being stuck in a library on my own for years on end. After eight weeks of my MA I enrolled myself in a business college and learned how to use Microsoft Office and type. I’ll never forget living on the biscuits those college ladies provided me with — they were like my fairy godmothers! I went to a library (pre-internet) and looked up publishers in the area and the biggest one was Wayland in Hove. I walked in and asked them if they needed someone, and Steve White-Thomson, the then MD, offered me a job on the spot, for £5 an hour. They’d just bought MacDonald Young Books from Hemel Hempstead and needed someone to help unpack boxes. Hurrah! I was in and it wasn’t long before I became a project editor.

What would you say are the pros and cons of coming into publishing from another industry?
Pro: It gives you greater insight into the real world. Publishing can sometimes feel very rarified, where we make decisions based on instinct and virtually no commercial factors. At least back then, anyway. Nowadays everyone is expected to think more commercially so my stint in retail definitely gave me an advantage. Con: I don’t think there are any. My career hasn’t suffered because of it. Maybe the only downside was starting so late (28) so I had to move faster to get up the ladder. I had a helping hand when Hodder bought Wayland back in the ‘90s and I was catapulted to senior commissioning editor only a couple of years in the business.

What skills do you use in your current role that you gained earlier in your career and that have helped you progress?
Liberty helped me think about what customers want, customer service, how to deal with suppliers, how goods get shipped around the world, how pricing worked, and how special sales worked. I think this knowledge gave me a headstart and has definitely helped me become the commercial publishing director I am today.

Why is publishing a great place to be?
For me, children’s publishing is the best place to be. I had a brief stint in adult and came running back to children’s fairly swiftly. It’s partly because I love illustrating books and working with artists as well as authors, but also because the people in it have a shared passion for what they’re doing. It’s great to be in an industry where people are so committed to something they love.